‘Outlander: Blood of My Blood’ Showrunner Reveals How Julia’s Choice in Episode 8 Saves ‘Outlander’: “If She Does What Brian Says…There’s No Jamie Fraser”

Outlander: Blood of My Blood Episode 8 “A Virtuous Woman” reunites two soulmates, puts its spirited heroine through a humiliating test, and ends with an unplanned character death. It’s just the latest epic installment of the Starz series and one that actually has a huge ripple effect on the larger Outlander saga, according to series showrunner Matthew B. Roberts.

**Spoilers for Outlander: Blood of My Blood Episode 8 “A Virtuous Woman,” now streaming on Starz**

Last week’s Blood of My Blood ended with Isaac Grant (Brian McCardie) sending the MacKenzies a letter accusing Ellen MacKenzie (Harriet Slater) of being impure. We, of course, know that it’s true. Ellen and Brian Fraser (Jamie Roy) secretly handfasted in Episode 5, declaring their love in a run-down chapel and consummating their romance. However, if a medical examination confirms that Ellen is “ruined,” i.e. no longer has a hymen, she could bring all of Clan MacKenzie down. The Grants would want to kill her in revenge for tricking her betrothed, Malcom (Jhon Lumsden).

When news of this reaches Brian at Castle Leathers, he plans to storm into Castle Leoch to save his “wife,” a move that would undoubtedly result in his own death. Julia (Hermione Corfield) offers to help, though. She remembers a passage from a medieval medical text, the Trotula, which offers women a recipe to mimic a hymen for just these situations. (No, this is really a thing.)

Julia accompanies Brian on his mission, but at a pivotal moment, a literal crossroads, Brian offers her an escape. Julia has learned that husband Henry (Jeremy Irvine) is the bladier for House Grant. Brian tells her if she goes one way, it will take her to the Grants. He will go on alone to face his fate at Castle Leoch. Julia refuses to abandon Brian.

“She has a moment to break free, and I think it’s really important in the story of who she is and also, oddly enough, in our story of Jamie Fraser,” Roberts told DECIDER earlier this week. “If she goes and does what Brian says, then then Ellen probably fails. They want to kill her. Brian probably steps in. They both get killed. There’s no Jamie Fraser.”

Julia’s plan works, resulting in Ellen passing the test. Elsewhere, word arrives that Malcolm’s father, the devious Isaac, has died offscreen. (Outlander: Blood of My Blood Episode 4 was dedicated in memory of actor Brian McCardie, who passed away during production.) Oh, and finally, Julia and Henry briefly, tenderly, reunite at Castle Leoch, only to separate again for the sake of baby William still stuck at Leathers.

DECIDER spoke with showrunner Matthew B. Roberts about all these juicy developments earlier this week, and even asked him if we should plan on watching next year’s final season of Outlander to find out more about Claire’s mysterious baby brother William…

DECIDER: This week, Henry and Julia finally, briefly, reunite. Why at this point in the season did you want that to happen? They could have met up sooner or you could have delayed it and prolonged the separation. Why was Episode 8 the moment?

MATTHEW B. ROBERTS: Well, you said they could have met up sooner. Natural to the story, I think it would have been a little forced if we got them to this place a little earlier. We would’ve had to manufacture something. This felt the most natural place for them to meet. And coming off of what Henry’s gone through in the past couple episodes, that trauma. There’s a method to this madness. You want to get characters to rock bottom and then give them something to live for and I think that moment absolutely does that.

Julia, too. I mean, Julia is in this place. Where does she go, what does she do, is she gonna live her life with Lovat and his child? I mean, that’s pretty rock bottom. Even though she’s in a safer environment, in a weird way, it’s still a jail cell. She has a moment to break free, and I think it’s really important in the story of who she is and also, oddly enough, in our story of Jamie Fraser, if she goes and does what Brian says and she goes down that road, then then Ellen probably fails. They want to kill her. Brian probably steps in. They both get killed. There’s no Jamie Fraser. So that one moment at the crossroads is, “No, I’m going to keep my word to you.” And it’s funny. It’s like you go, “Wow, what would Claire do?” And you would think they would do that exact same thing. You think that’s where Claire got it from.

Then you give Henry that moment of recognition because when he first sees her, he doesn’t [believe it’s her]. And we played it like that, we wanted it to be like that. You know, the actors played it like that. And then it’s that moment they come together and he touches there and he smells her and he feels her and he goes, “No, this is the real one. This is it.” And we also play the Henry/Julia theme, so if you weren’t sure, the music will tell you it’s absolutely real.

Speaking of Henry and Julia, they do have to logically separate for the time being, because it’s not a safe time for her to spirit the baby away. How long do you think they’re going to be apart going forward before, like, the fandom just erupts and riots?

Well, I think what’s funny about that is, you know, Jamie and Claire stayed apart a lot and then we’d get them together and then they immediately — it’s in the books — they get ripped apart. I remember having conversations when we’re crafting the stories in [Outlander] Season 3, like, “Hey, could they be together in Episode 1?” And we’re like, “No, they can’t be together in Episode 1.” I know that people want those moments of them together, but the biggest episodes of Outlander were not the episodes where they sustained to be together. It’s the moment they got together from being apart. You know, even though they’re together on the road and stuff prior to the wedding, they really weren’t together. And then they came together. And then what do we do? We rip them apart and Claire has to go and save him. You know what I mean? It happens all the time. We’re living in the same universe. We will have and I think there’s a place we go — because we have the two couples — is we might have one couple together and one couple apart.

We’ll see, I don’t know. I don’t know a lot, I just work here.

One of the sadder parts of the first season is that Brian McCardie passed away during production. I know that Episode 4 was dedicated to him. In this episode, Isaac Grant, the character, dies offscreen. Was it always the plan to kill Isaac Grant and did Brian’s passing affect the story in major ways?

Yeah. No. When we cast Brian as Isaac, we were going to play that out as far as that storyline played out and it certainly wasn’t going to end in Season 1. He’s just too, he was, he’s fantastic. I mean, you saw the scenes he was in. It was just amazing and adds so much tension and conflict to that story. But you don’t know where that goes, you don’t know what would have happened with Henry. You know, Henry could have… Who knows what would have happened? But that went away. So we brought in a new storyline. And this happened, obviously, while we were filming and while it was going on, so we had to revamp on the run and but we got to a really good place. You’ll find out that in the next episode how it plays out a little bit and then as we go forward. But look, there’s going to be a lot of twists and turns in this story. I don’t want to reveal too much, but I think a lot of people will be shocked of where we go and how it resolves.

Most of this episode delves into Ellen being tested. That’s obviously something that happened in European history and it was harrowing. I really appreciate that the show itself doesn’t seem to judge Ellen for not being a virgin in the way that everyone around her does and it highlights how invasive and humiliating the process is. I’m really curious at how you want to approach that as this terrifying thing.

Well, you know, it’s funny. I get asked a lot of questions about how we portray things, and we portray them as how it was and how it would affect the character. You see on Ellen’s face how it affected her and how her brothers didn’t defend her and how her brothers didn’t step up and say, “She’s virtuous. We don’t need a test. If that’s the way you feel, get the hell out of here.” They didn’t do that. I think that was more, that’s where the pain comes from. That’s why when she gets done that she eyeballs both of those guys. And Mrs. Fitz says to Ned, “Shame on all of you.” That’s, to me, the story point.

People were talking about this, on the crew, the instruments that we show in the beginning, a lot of them haven’t changed that much, which is shocking. It was shocking to the men. We were showing them and the women on the crew we’re going, “Yeah, it’s very similar to today.” And you’re like, “What?” We were finding out in real time that things haven’t changed that much.

But you know, I let people interpret things their own way. You can feel a certain way. Like Episode 6, what people were calling controversial, I don’t think it’s controversial. I personally don’t, but if you do, that’s great. You know, I mean, that’s the way I feel. If it made you feel uncomfortable, well, good. It made you feel uncomfortable because it was uncomfortable for Julia. We were calling it the worst baby shower in the history. You know what I mean? It was not… But that’s the flip. You think it’s going to be one thing and then it’s another. And I think that’s what we do best. But we also let the audience go, “This is the way I feel about it.” I don’t want to tell you how to feel about it. I want you to feel something about it. You know, someone could look at that Episode 8 and go, “Oh, it’s not that big a deal.” And then somebody else could go, “Oh my god, that brings… That’s traumatic to me.” I can only tell the story, right?

A totally different tonal moment this episode is that Henry and Brian sort of meet. I’m curious if you can tease if there be more crossover between those two characters?

Yeah, I that moment was… The way both Jamie and Jeremy played that was so fun. And that moment, it breaks the tension, too. It gives you that moment to smile a little bit, too, because, a lot of people cry in the moment when they meet. So when you have that moment, we all burst out laughing because it’s so, “Wait a minute. Who is this guy?” He’s still Henry going, “Wait a minute, what are you doing with my wife?” Just the way it was played was so fun, it was so natural. That natural moment and that’s why, you know, we let it live and we let it breathe. I love that moment. But yes, we want to get the four of them together naturally. I don’t want to just put them together where they wouldn’t [be together].

When the audience starts feeling like it’s forced, even though you’re giving them something that they want desperately… Kids want cake. You don’t give it to them every time. You give them their vegetables and the fruits and stuff, and then when you do give them the cake, it’s so amazing. It’s fantastic. I’m not saying our audience are kids, but I’m saying that I think that’s human nature. If you get too much of something, we call it the law of diminishing returns. In story, the more you see it, the less return you get for it. So we want to make it count, right?

I know that the new season is already in production right now. Do you hope to have a faster timeline for Blood of My Blood coming back than maybe some recent seasons of Outlander that took several years? Do you do you anticipate there being a long wait between the first and second season?

Yeah, that’s not in my purview. I just make the show and when they air it, they air it. That’s the same with Outlander. I want the audience to to see it as soon as I’m done making it, you know what I mean? I think what people forget is that networks have other shows and they plan those out and those time slots are taken. Say, “Oh, okay, Outlander people want to see it earlier. Let’s move it up six months.” What happens to that show that was going to air and the fans who watch that particular show? It’s one of those kinds of things. So I don’t get into the programing of it all, but I know that if you’re putting a show into a spot, somebody else is not going to be in that spot, right?

We talked about how you have a plan in motion for Claire’s brother. I’m curious how much fans of Blood my Blood will have to potentially pay attention to the final season of Outlander for any clues. Do you see them as standalone? Are you going to give any clues or hints? Will there be crossover?

I would never tell you. Great question. I wanted to see where you were going to go, but I will absolutely never tell you.

Okay. Because I’m just like, “Do people have to watch both to understand?” Because there’s so many great Easter eggs in Blood of my Blood if you watched the original series.

I mean, that’s part of the the tapestry of the show. If you’ve watched Outlander, you’re going to get some of the Easter eggs in Blood. We deliberately put them in there for the fans of the show. Sometimes they’re just a piece of candy and sometimes they’re like, “Oh, wait a minute. Where is that going to go?” And I think both are there sometimes.

Speaking of which, Arch Bug. I feel like he is such a dastardly presence on Blood of My Blood. Almost more so than in the main series, where there kind of was like an arc to get him there. Can you talk about how you were inspired to put Arch Bug in this form in Blood of My Blood?

Well, once you realize that Arch works at the Grants’ — you know, we played that out in Season 7 of Outlander — you go, “Well, he was there. So what would he be doing?” I think, just like with all the characters in Blood, they’re not the same people they are in Outlander. That’s years later, years later. I mean, Arch Bug is in his late 70s in Outlander at the time. People change throughout their lives. Let’s see how he got to be this guy. Because in Outlander, until Ian accidentally kills Murdina, he’s a really loving, caring kind of guy. And you’re like, “How does that guy get to be that guy?” That’s the journey we want to tell on Blood of My Blood and I think that’s for all the characters. You want to see how Murtagh became Murtagh.

This interview has been formatted and edited for clarity.