‘Everyone Is Lying To You For Money’ Filmmaker Ben McKenzie Used His ‘The O.C’ Fame To Score An Interview With Scammer Samuel Bankman-Fried: “His Assistant Was A Fan”

Who would have thought that Ben McKenzie, the actor known worldwide for his roles in The O.C. and Gotham, would become one of the most prominent critics of the cryptocurrency world? After being advised by his friend Dave—who once gave him terrible financial advice in his 20s—to invest in Bitcoin, McKenzie became interested in the possibility. Armed with a degree in Foreign Affairs and Economics from University of Virginia, McKenzie soon discovered the dark side of digital currency—which has allowed scammers like the currently incarcerated FTX founder Samuel Bankman-Fried and Celsius founder Alex Mashinsky to defraud unsuspecting people out of their very real money. This inspired McKenzie to write his first book with Jacob Silverman. “Easy Money: Cryptocurrency, Casino Capitalism, and the Golden Age of Fraud” became an instant New York Times Bestseller.

But McKenzie wasn’t finished. To warn as many people as possible about the dangers of cryptocurrency, the actor set out to make a documentary entitled Everyone Is Lying To You For Money—which he wrote, directed, self-financed, and coproduced. Roving from El Salvador to Miami to London to the NYC to the U.S Senate, McKenzie and his producer/camera man Giorgio Angelini travelled the world to see the “Bitcoin City,” interview victims of crypto scams, and speak with notorious characters like Mashinsky and Bankman-Friend long before they were indicted. “It was pretty clear to me, as well as to other people, that whatever they were up to was not on the up and up,” said McKenzie. “Hopefully, the film serves as a vindication and a warning.”

McKenzie is also the first to admit that “crypto is a pretty guy thing.” So, he implored his wife, actress Morena Baccarin, to appear on-camera and be his sounding board. “I cannot tell you how many women I’ve talked to who have no interest in crypto,” said McKenzie with a laugh. Luckily, Baccarin was ready to support her husband. “I love that the film shows how funny she is,” said McKenzie. “She steals several scenes.” One moment that stands out is when McKenzie goes to visit Baccarin on the set of Greenland. She asks him not to talk about crypto with her co-star Gerard Butler, an admonition that McKenzie promptly ignores. “I was surprised that Gerry was so game. He was really terrific,” remembered McKenzie. “Comedy was really our North star.”

McKenzie stopped by the Decider studio to talk about the challenges he faced while crafting his feature directorial debut, how he used his reputation from The O.C. to his advantage while making the documentary, and why people should never, ever, ever take financial advice from celebrities.

DECIDER: Everyone Is Lying To You For Money premiered at SXSW London back in June. Was the reception everything you hoped it would be?

BEN MCKENZIE: It was fantastic. We premiered in London and sold out both shows. We got an incredible first review in Texas Monthly. I had never seen the movie with an audience of any size so my nerves were very high, but it went over great. People were laughing at all the right moments. I think I saw a tear here and there [laughs], so it all worked.

Everyone Is Lying To You For Money also marks your directional debut. What was the biggest challenge going from actor to filmmaker?

As an actor, you’re always able to ask, “who’s in charge here?” As the director, you are the person in charge. I had the chance to direct and write on Gotham, but I’d never written and directed a movie. This movie’s a bit unusual because it’s a hybrid. Some of it is cinema verité featuring interviews with people like Sam Bankman-Fried and Alex Mashinsky. Some of it involves me and my wife, Morena Baccarin, improvising a scene to move the story forward and add a bit of humor.Comedy is not a genre I’ve worked in a lot.

The doc is very funny! You forgo the traditional talking heads documentary format and instead structure your film around your quest to understand crypto. Can you talk about finding the balance between informing and entertaining?

I really did not want the documentary to be a talking head documentary. I personally love those documentaries, but I don’t think they are the best way to reach a large audience. There are some sit down interviews that are important—that are with a couple people who are now in jail—but the rest of it, I wanted to feel fresh. I wanted the audience to be able to connect to my experiences as I go down the rabbit hole into crypto. Comedy was really our North star. We wanted to keep the tone light to disarm the audience a little bit. Then, we were able to sneak in teaching them a little something about crypto.

And it’s clear you’re very comfortable with your time on The O.C.

[Laughs] Well, now I am.

When did you learn that you could use that to your advantage when making the doc?

One particular time was when I was interviewing Sam Bankman-Fried. I was about to interview him when his nice female assistant/handler came up to me to introduce herself. The first thing out of her mouth was, “oh, my God, I’m such a big fan of The O.C.” That allowed me to set up the interview alone in a room with Sam, my camera people, and Jacob, who wrote the book that this movie is based on. I asked her; “could you just maybe wait outside because it’s such a small room?” And as my publicist knows, you never leave your client alone during a hostile interview. But because she was a fan of The O.C., I got away with it.

And you even have that fraud investigator mug out on the table, which I thought was pretty bold.

That’s my favorite purchase ever on Etsy. I still drink from it every morning just to remind myself of that experience. Thank you. I’m proud of that one.

From El Salvador to the U.S Senate, did you the imagine the scope of your documentary being that wide?

Not at all. I didn’t imagine the scope of it because I didn’t know what I was doing. I was just turning the camera on and filming. I really didn’t know what sort of adventure I was in for, which was the most fun part of all. Documentary filmmaking is something completely different from what I’ve done before, so it felt nice to blend it with my showbiz roots. Honestly, I don’t know that I could have picked El Salvador out on a map before this experience. Now, I have this deep love for the country and for the people…not so much for its president.

So much of your life with Morena Baccarin and your kids is included in this documentary. She clearly is over your crypto obsession at times, but still remains supportive. What did she make of this whole thing?

I don’t think she was thrilled about having the cameras in the house, but I love that the film shows how funny she is. I mean, she steals several scenes. She also serves as a surrogate for the majority of the female audience. I cannot tell you how many women I’ve talked to who have no interest in crypto. They’re like, “oh my God, this guy was talking about crypto to me and just would not shut up.” They’re so tired of dudes mansplaining this fictitious currency to them. I imagine that would be pretty obnoxious. Even though I’m a crypto skeptic, Morena’s still a bit like, “oh my God, can we please talk about something else?”

Well, one man who couldn’t mansplain crypto to anyone is Gerard Butler, Morena’s Greenland co-star. Were you surprised he was a familiar at all with crypto?

Crypto is a pretty guy thing, so it wasn’t that surprising that he had some investments. I was surprised that Gerry was so game. Right before we started filming, he was like “what do I do? What do I do?” And I said: “Just treat it like a scene out of Extras. I’m Ricky Gervais and you’re the famous actor who is about to give me a ton of grief.” And he did a great job.

I believe at one point you say—and I’m likely paraphrasing—crypto is backed by nothing but a story. Given that, it makes sense that the industry would employ celebrity spokespeople like Matt Damon, Gwyneth Paltrow and Tom Brady. Why shouldn’t people take financial advice from celebrities?

Because they’re not qualified to give financial advice. Technically, it’s illegal. If you’re not a licensed financial advisor, you’re not supposed to offer people financial advice. That law is rarely enforced, however. I understand the attraction because they’re cool or whatever, but my hope is that celebrities stay on the sidelines. Nowadays they’re not so much into crypto, but I’m a little worried that as the bubble inflates again, they’re going to come back. By this time though a lot of people have been burned and probably aren’t coming back to it to invest in it.

You interviewed and exposed both Alex Mashinsky and Samuel Bankman Fried for the frauds they are long before they were sentenced to prison time for their crimes. Do you feel vindicated?

Yes, I do. Even though it has taken me a long time to finish the documentary, it’s interesting how timely it is. Both Alex and Sam are in jail now. Alex got 12 years and Sam got 25. I was interviewing them, as you said, before they were even indicted for these crimes. However, it was clear to me, as well as to other people, that whatever they were up to was not on the up and up. I do feel vindicated. I also hope that showing the vacuity of crypto—and how absolutely useless this whole thing is— serves as a warning for people not to go back in. I think the temptation now, as this crypto bubble starts to re-inflates, is to invest again. Hopefully, the film can serves as a warning.

You interviewed so many victims of the Celsius scam. Their testimony was incredibly moving, and yet most of them still haven’t given up on cryptocurrency. Is there anything that can break the spell?

For the 5% or so of the population that is really, really into crypto, I doubt it. I doubt that they’re ever going to be convinced because crypto has almost become a grandiose belief system. They have deeply held feelings, and the more they’ve invested, the more they believe in it. I interviewed, I don’t know, several dozen Celsius victims, all men, and I asked them whether they still believe in crypto, even having lost money in the fraud. Every single one of them said yes. My film is not about trying to convince that 5%, unfortunately. It’s about warning the other 95% and debunking all of crypto myths so that people can make the right financial decisions.

What is one thing that you hope audiences take away from your film? My one thing would be we can’t let cryptocurrency affect our banking system.

That’s exactly right. I’m deeply worried that crypto has gotten further into our regulated financial system. Congress just passed a bill that the president signed called the Genius Act. If you know anything about our Congress, if it’s called the Genius Act, it’s got to be dumb. The Genius Act basically opens the floodgates up for crypto to be more intertwined with our banking system. That’s really bad.

In 2023, three banks failed in the United States, and the failures were all tied to cryptocurrency. It’s one thing for people to gamble with their own money and lose it. I’m not anti-gambling, per se. I am against gambling when other people have to foot the bill for your losses which affects the whole system. I worry that could happen with crypto.

Has your friend Dave given you any more financial advice since Bitcoin? Or do you two stay away from investments and money these days?

Yeah, we try to avoid that these days. Although Dave, of course, will let me know that the price of Bitcoin is back up. I say, “okay buddy, if that makes you feel any better.” I’m really excited to show Dave the movie. He hasn’t seen it yet.

What is the future for Everyone Is Lying To You For Money?

So, we premiered in London. We’re now going to some American festivals, including Mill Valley, New Orleans, and another one that I can’t talk about yet. We’re in conversations with distributors about getting the movie out. So, if you happen to be in the San Francisco area, please come to Mill Valley. And if you’re in New York, we will be coming to a festival near you this fall.

Everyone Is Lying To You For Money is currently seeking distribution